Em: beautiful weather!!
tidrion: um I don’t see any storms tornados
Em: no, but it’s not hot!!!
tidrion: how can you call that beautiful
Sent at 9:29 AM on Monday
tidrion: hey there
tidrion: was curious what you walked away with from that movie
Em: LOL in 10 words or less, 1000 words or less or 1 million words or less?
tidrion: 10 words
Em: an explanation for what I’ve felt all my life
tidrion: which is?
Em: well, for one, loving oneself
ideas are real and they can make or break your universe
Em: Ideas are like spells / intentions / “prayers”
except prayers ask and ideas “tell”
tidrion: well on the notion that ideas are real
Em: reality really is closer to the matrix
tidrion: I think that was central to Christ’s teaching
Em: it is our beliefi n god that created a god
runs and hides
tidrion: Matthew 5:27: “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
Matthew 5:28: But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Em: oh gods
tidrion: Matthew 5:21: “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’
Matthew 5:22: But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
Em: CLOSE to what i mean
tidrion: but think about it
think just for a second
Em: yeah.. they are on the edge
tidrion: just one second
Em: they are close
tidrion: just one second
Em: but they ave to put rules on it
tidrion: they put rules, 2 rules centrally to Love God and to Love everyone else
Em: how about the matter that is in more places than just one
tidrion: the rules taught us to not to action against another
Christ taught us not to even take thought against another
God is omni-present
Em: Christ knew exactly what he was talking about.. it was the humans that scrwed up what he was trying to teach
tidrion: some humans
some stick to the letter more than the Spirit
Em: Did ya watch Davinci Code?
tidrion: of coure…
tidrion: but are you really going to give me a “history” lesson according to Dan Brown?
Em: I like it that it takes the Whore out of the scenario
I like it ALOT
tidrion: Whore? Mary Magdaline? The idea that Christ was married?
Em: yeah.. those things
tidrion: hmm, not enough historical data for that to me
Em: that christ was married?
do more research
Jesus. I prefer to call him Jesus
tidrion: I’ve done countless hours of research
Sent at 1:14 PM on Monday
tidrion: why Jesus over Christ?
Em: either way, it’s a question that cannot be answered
Em: Jesus is a name, Christ is a title?
tidrion: neither is really a name
but whatever makes you comfortable
Em: (or, Jesus is his first name, and Christ is his last name.. and of course his middle name is n/m)
tidrion: Christ is not his last nme
do more research
I was referring to a joke
which is why I did the n/m
again, to me it was a scientific reaffirmation to one of the core teachings of Christ that thoughts have meaning and impact and that actions aren’t required for wrong doing
Em: hon, I’m not going there with you
Sent at 1:17 PM on Monday
didn’t think you would
Em: you are taking a beautiful idea and pushing it towards the negative. That is one of the things I hate about organized religion. THey seem to think only of the bad, the negative, go to hell if you don’t follow the rules and stuff.
It’s no wonder that think positive books are such a high item!
tidrion: oh I’m not saying thoughts can’t have positive effects too
Em: but you dwell!!
everyone dwells on the bad
tidrion: not even condemning for having a negative thoughts
Em: and that is what makes so much bad in this world
tidrion: how am I dwelling on bad?
I try and keep my thoughts pure, hard around you
Em: pull me a quote from the bible on good thoughts?
thanks for the complimnet
I was gonna say that.. but.. LOL
wasn’t sure where you were or who was around
tidrion: Matthew 5:43: “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
Matthew 5:44: But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Matthew 5:45: so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Em: there are still negatives.
all i want is pure goodness, good thought without mention of bad
tidrion: you who claims to have an eternal enemy, to be destined to hate someone you work with cause you fought against them in a past life?
you who has spewed forth more hatred while I’ve tried to bring you back to a center focused on love
you are trying to tell me that my religion breeds hate?
Sent at 1:28 PM on Monday
tidrion: I John 4:16: So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
I John 4:18: There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
Em: have I really said I hated Jeremy?
Em: I said he’s a fucking idiot
tidrion: you told me you where destined to hate him!
to be at war with him
that you were enemies in a past life
that you’d consulted the stars and found that you were destined to be at odds with him
Em: but that is different from hate!
tidrion: what if you just loved him
Em: but you’d get jealous and his wife woudln’t be too hapy with me..
Sent at 1:35 PM on Monday
Em: oh wait…
Sent at 1:35 PM on Monday
tidrion: well stop using love in place of lust
ad don’t dance around this issue
tidrion: cause I think it is important and critical
Em: LOL the issue is you can’t find much in the bible that doesn’t balance the good w/o the bad
and now you are trying to turn it around on me
I”m not havnig a crisis
I do not hate Jeremy, I am annoyed by him
I will not fuck him
tidrion: not asking you to
Em: and I will not love him
but I will not hate him.. I simply dislike him
tidrion: you want more good and uplifting words from the bible?
Em: and get fed up with his stupidity
tidrion: I can keep going with scripture
Em: as wel all do
even Andy has! LOL
and that has been beautiful!
Sent at 1:37 PM on Monday
tidrion: sick kid
Sent at 1:37 PM on Monday
tidrion: the law of three fold return even states there is punishment for those who do wrong
who carries that punishment out?
Em: ah, but it’s the inetent!!
the universe does
tidrion: the universe? or the divine? or God?
depending on your belief
tidrion: so why is it so hard for you to believe that God can punish?
that there are consequences to your actions
Em: punish is fine, eternity in hell is outrageous
tidrion: you seem to be so caught up being against the idea of wrong or evil, bad intent
scary thought isn’t it?
tidrion: Think Hitler earned it?
no one earned it
I think he will be punished accordingly and will have other chances to redeem himself
in other lifetimes
tidrion: are you that afraid?
Em: oh Christopher
I am not afraid
you sadden me
tidrion: because you don’t believe in it
Em: :( hugs
look me up in your next life
we’ll have fun and some laughs too!
Sent at 1:42 PM on Monday
tidrion: so are we all reincarnated? is that what you believe, that all of us no matter our deeds get another roll of the dice?
another chance to walk this earth?
are we still paying for past sins?
tidrion: how is that not eternal punishment?
if someone is unrepentant
tidrion: if someone keeps committing horrible acts over and over again?
Em: do you mean if the soul itself is broken? then they will never reach enlightenment, as you god-fearing people put it
and they will forever walk the earth doomed to repeat their past transgrettions
tidrion: so your willing to accept that if in every life you commit sin that you’ll be punished in the next, that eternal damnation you are comfortable with but that damnation to hell is beyond your grasp?
Em: but being a part of the balance
for their must be balance
tidrion: between? Good and Evil?
Em: to answer your question, no
the first question
I beleive we get punished for sins in our current lives
which is why so many bad people aren’t happy
balance is between everything
tidrion: but bad people die happy all the time
Em: do they?
tidrion: people do get away with it
Em: do you really know what is in their hearts?
or do they die insane?
tidrion: oh my…
a tormented mind is punishment enough?
Em: depends on the acts
tidrion: so when they die, they are washed of their past sins and born anew
Em: and the intent
no, they are not washed of their past sins
depends ont he sins, silly!
tidrion: so what sins carry over and what sins don’t?
what if someone drives drunk kills two kids and dies himself
he carry that over?
what if it was even his intent to off himself and take someone else out with him
lets go on to the suicide bombers
horrible acts meant to punish and murder people
they die in the act, next life?
what do they get?
that carry over?
Em: depends on intent
tidrion: their intent was to kill and rob little children of their lives
Em: I’m not the universe, it is not for me to determine, nor am I the soul in question. I know if I was the drunk I would want to be punished and I would take a life of punishment to earn back my karma
if they were drunk, they did not have an intent that specific
tidrion: so lets say you in a life of punishment, you aren’t happy and you do it again
same thing, same intent
take yourself out and someone else
Em: yes, that does happen
tidrion: another life of punishment?
Em: I think of them as tests and choices
everyone’s soul is unique like a person. we all have goals that we are stupposed to reach in every lifetime
in order to progress forward, in order to learn
think of us as students
tidrion: so you are saying there are things we are supposed to do, and things we aren’t?
Em: young souls, old souls,
tidrion: we all have goals that we are stupposed to reach in every lifetime
Em: no, there is never anything we “aren’t ” supposed to do
but thre are things we are to do to learn
tidrion: not even if it harms?
Em: to live
even if it harms
tidrion: so in your view even if something we do intentionally harms someone we still weren’t necessarily not supposed to do it?
tidrion: so what you call the balance I call God’s will
grin Here’s a fun one for you!
tidrion: because there are certain things that seem dispicable, horrible, heart wrenching and cruel, but somewhere you accept there was a reason for it to happen?
Em: I believe there are “job descriptions” that our souls choose from. This one, die young, this one, bad parents, this one, activist, this one, president, etc. Depending on our level of “education” and our soul’s age, we can choose a job that will move us towards our next level of fullfillment
(and yes to your question)
tidrion: we still punished 3 times when we are fulfilling purpose?
Em: that depends on other aspects
so many other aspects that we cannot even fathom
tidrion: and I just think there are purposes for us to fulfill that he decided long ago
Em: I don’t like to think that we do not truly have free will and that is exactly what that means
tidrion: no it isn’t
Em: do it gods way or go to hell
tidrion: just cause we can choose not to fulfill the purpose isn’t that freewill
Em: in my world, it’s do it right the first time and graduate to the next level
but in your world, we only get one chance!!
Em: do we give our children only one chance to get something right?
aren’t we god’s children?
tidrion: of course
Em: what do we learn if we aren’t allowed ot make mistkaes
and if we die because of the mistake we’re fucked?
I cannot agree with that
tidrion: absolutely allowed to make mistakes
Em: I don’t see how anyone could agree with that
tidrion: if I die in sin I don’t believe I’m going to hell
I don’t need final rights
I’m not a member of the Roman Catholic Church
Em: so what happens?
how can you “absolve” yourself?
tidrion: I can’t
why I need him
tidrion: His completed work on the cross
like you said, maybe it was his will
maybe I was supposed to fuck it
maybe it served his purposed in a way that I can’t understand
I’m not muslim either
I don’t think I have an angel on each shoulder tallying
my good and bad
I humbly repent my sins, I do my best to love my neighbor as myself, and I love and honor him with my whole heart
he made the ultimate sacrifice for me
Sent at 2:00 PM on Monday
tidrion: I have faith in that, and faith that his actions will out weigh my transgressions
Sent at 2:01 PM on Monday
tidrion: I still think if you accept his love in grace that causes a change inside of you that carries out to the love for everyone else
I love myself because I believe that God loves me
Em: brb, my ice melted! hugs
Sent at 2:01 PM on Monday
tidrion: I believe that he loved me so much that he sacrificed for me
Sent at 2:03 PM on Monday
tidrion: so tell me this, when someone is born again, if they are born into a life of suffering, punishment for past misdeeds and they die before they have a chance to atone for what they have done, are they born into punishment again?
tidrion: so you don’t really believe that all children are innocent
Em: ah, but they don’t ahve to atone until they are of the understanding … a baby cannot atone for a past life debt
otherwise, what would stop souls from dying as babies constantly?
tidrion: but they are still born into another life of punishment?
even though they couldn’t atone they are still punished?
Em: the children are not punished
tidrion: but you just said some deeds warrant a life of punishment
so punishment doesn’t start until the age of reason?
but they are still “marked”?
tidrion: well if they are born into a life of suffering, but suffering doesn’t start until a certain age, nothing they do in their life before the punishment begins or before they can begin to atone can free them from that punishment
so if I soul is “marked” set to serve a life of punishment but they keep dying at age 2 they’re just fucked?
cause they can’t “graduate”
can’t move forward until they atone
they never reach the age of reason
Em: is it their choice taht they are dying before the age of reason? then yes, they are fucked
tidrion: that sucks
Em: no, because it is their choice!
they chose to catch mono, HIV, born into poverty?
did you not read abou tmy job description?
tidrion: right but we’re talking about our suffering life here
cause we did something bad enough to carry over
tidrion: we’ve done something that has earned us a life of suffering, punishment for previous transgressions
but we keep getting born into lives that end before we reach the age of reason so we can’t atone
you telling me even in lives of suffering we get to pick job descriptions?
tidrion: and are you telling me people chose lives that end at age 1 and 2?
Em: our soul does
tidrion: so someone choses to be an abortion baby?
Em: go away Christoff
you don’t understand
Sent at 2:17 PM on Monday
tidrion: I’m trying
Sent at 2:17 PM on Monday
tidrion: trying to understand why a soul would chose that
Sent at 2:18 PM on Monday
tidrion: I really want to understand this, maybe sometime we can talk about it more
miscarried babies, abortions, IF the soul is really there, the soul chose to do that to HELP the other soul go thru the loss or the experience of losing a child or making the abortion decision
we aren’t here just to help our own souls, we can help others too!
tidrion: but if that is true why a gap before the age of reason? why the wait for atonement, if a soul is born with that purpose or realization why is there ever a question?
Em: (z means SHUT THE FUCK UP TIM’S HERE!, btw)
anyway, I don’t understand your newest question
they get karma points for helping out another soul, but once again, it is the intent
they may already have a connection with someone.
and they figure it would eas them thru it if they miscarried a soul that they are already connected to
it’s something they can discuss if need be
time is eternal
tidrion: but this goes against free will to me
we’ll talk later
Em: so.. what happens has already happened to a degree…
just not the decisions
yeah.. free will is difficult
do we have free will just on earth or do we as souls in the SUmmerlands
I think it is all a matter of chioces and growth
tidrion: just don’t understand, someone has to make a “wrong” choice somewhere, to know the outcome of the life, before the life begins, that is awfully self fulfilling
tidrion: granted, some will chose to make tuff choices, but if we all chose the job descriptions why wouldn’t everyone pick to be Gandhi, or Buddha, or Bill Gates
why ever chose a life that is self serving
why would there ever be bad people
Em: becaue tney have to EARN the karma points to be them
because we have to have balance and bad people are requred for part of the learning
there are souls who enjoy it too much
tidrion: do we lose points?
Em: and those are the ones who are “repeat offenders”
tidrion: how far are you when you only have one choice
Em: of course we lose points
tidrion: and what if that choice is only an abortion baby
what if you loose your options
are never granted a chance to atone
Em: I’m still confused by your question
in the eyes of a soul, how is an abortion baby andy different from a miscarried or stillborn baby?
you don’t lose options!
tidrion: but if you don’t have enough points?
Em: how many average joes are there in the world?
tidrion: what if your points are 0
Em: 0 points equals average joe
who can’t find love
be happy at a job
tidrion: can’t atone?
can’t earn more points?
Em: they can always atone!
how could they not atone if they so choose?
help someone across the street
join the peace corp
tidrion: but what they constantly fuck up
they’ll just always be a 0
Em: it’s a choice to fuck up
they can take “time outs” if they are that stupid
Em: and be an animal or something
but like I also said, there are those who choose to be evil
tidrion: you’ve gotta be f’n kidding me, choices on animals to?
Em: and they need to for there to be balance
I don’t see why not
ever heard of familiars?
tidrion: but they aren’t graduating
they are always leading unfulifling lives?
Em: and they will stay taht way forever
tidrion: they are never growing spirtuallity
Em: perhaps your relgiion could call them demons
tidrion: so you do believe in eternal damnation just with an option to get out of Jail Free if you chose?
if you chose at some point to finally not be evil
Em: I don’t like your definition of damnation, but otherwise, yes, people choose to walk the earth and “suffer” as opposed to graduating
tidrion: to not be a demon you can get out of it
Em: yes, you can finally choose to stop being a demon
tidrion: I’m just trying to understand, hell at its simplest form is thought to be the soul absent from God
some people read into the lakes of fire and eternal punishment
Em: nah, the universe is with you every step of your way.. whether your soul has negative karma and is a “demon” or if you are ghandi
tidrion: but in the eyes of a Christian nothing could be worse than being separated from God
Em: in in my world, we are never separated
may I blog our discussion?
tidrion: even if we are demons, God is still there, we just choose to ignore him
so it is the eternal part that you are in conflict, you believe that we can chose to be evil and suffer but that no one can ever pass that judgment on to you?
tidrion: even though someone judges our lives and determines if we go up in the ranks or down
the game is never over to you
Em: sorta and yes
I think we judge ourselves
tidrion: we decide if we get points?
Em: no one else has a right to
tidrion: are you f’n kidding me?
Em: our souls are pure energy!
souls cannot lie!
tidrion: what if your an evil bastard and you still think everything you did was for a purpose and served a greater good
what if you feel you could justify the killing of an entire people because it benefited another?
Em: my universe is beyond your comprehension at this point
human failings are not part of our souls in their purest sense
tidrion: than what is karma?
what is suffering?
Em: and you are trying to imply failings upon our souls
karma and suffering both are human
tidrion: well you agree we can fail
you believe in the threefold law
Em: some souls choose not to become human!
tidrion: obviously there is something we can do that earns us punishment
you even said that we can be born into a life of suffering and redemption
you even think that we could have to repeat that over and over again for all eternity
Em: it’s a choice
tidrion: you chose to suffer?
Em: and no, I don’ tthink any soul would choose to make the same mistakes over and over
didn’t jesus choose to suffer?
tidrion: but it can
and it does
yes, to serve a purpose, once, one shot, to save us, and wash us of our sins, to save us from eternal damnation
Em: grin exactly!
tidrion: to be our light
Em: why not over and over again, until he got it right?
it was still a choice
tidrion: cause he didn’t have to
he was PERFECT!
he was HUMAN!
tidrion: why laugh?
Em: can you imagine, the soul from my universe choosing to be the soul that would be your jesus
tidrion: so you can reach some state of infoulable spirtuality but god can’t!?
Em: wonder what the karmic points were on that one?
tidrion: I don’t think there were Karmic points, he hit the home run, it was out of the park he racked up so much salvation we don’t even have to keep score anymore, we just have to chose to believe or not, how great is that!?
you don’t have to repeat over and over and over
someone has done the work for you, believe in him, love him, love everyone else and you can rest after this life!
what if that is all that you have to really figure out?
what if that is what crashes the board in this or any life, for you or anyone else?
what if you don’t have to worry about it anymore
tidrion: worry about having shit come back on you, what if you could just put your faith in him and now you are saved?
Em: your universe is so… tiny
there is no room for growth
tidrion: my universe is exponential!
one chance, make it or break it
how can you get up every day?
how can you have children?
I just can’t grasp it!
Sent at 2:41 PM on Monday
tidrion: plenty of room for growth in Spirit! Easy, I don’t have to worry about it! I have faith in Christ and Him Crucified! WIth his love my fears over!
what do I have to be afraid of! The sacrifice was made!
Em: then why this constant searching?
tidrion: why do you assume I’m searching?
what part of you has ever thought that I’ve been in doubt for one second?
Have my arguments not been reasoned?
Em: grin It was a simple question
when it comes to religion, there is no “reason”
tidrion: oh wow
that is the dumbest thing you’ve ever said
Em: wow, now you are attacking me
you ARE scared
tidrion: Research Bethea
Sent at 2:45 PM on Monday
tidrion: have you never heard of a Christian Apologetic?
tidrion: is there mysticism in religion, absolutely, things beyond our comprehension and understanding, completely, but I belong to Episcopal Church, we don’t check our brains at the door.
Sent at 2:46 PM on Monday
tidrion: what do I have to be scared of? What is left to fear? I have my faith. It isn’t from emotion that I worship, never from fear that I offer my praise. It is for my salvation that I am grateful, its for his sacrifice that I see him worthy of all my love and honor.
That I may never be damned, or asked to serve another life more perfectly. Knowing that the perfect life has already been lived, and that it was given for my sake and for the salvation of the entire world. His love has removed my fear.
Em: So, have you followed your gods will and you could die tomorrow happily and safely, knowing you would spend eternity in heaven?
with no fear
to hell with tomorrow.
God wants you with him right now.
Are you ready?
Sent at 2:54 PM on Monday
tidrion: I am always ready to serve his will and purpose
Em: then I shall leave you be in peace
tidrion: How about you?
Do you have worries that you’ve committed acts that have lost you “points” do you worry you might commit an act beyond forgiveness or atonement in this life? Do you live not to serve your God in this life but in hope that in your next you may be more perfect?
Em: 1. No
tidrion: so you believe you will leave this life, earned more points, enjoy a brief slumber in the Summerfields and than be ready to pick another “job” on this earth again?
Em: if I so choose, yes.
this has been a good life
and continues to be a good life
my journey isn’t complete yet…
I have a responsibility to bring people together and also to help those I can… find themselves
and on the side, I get to program and I love it!
tidrion: so, your other lives? you did not serve them well? not enough to have graduated to pure spirit yet? something of your purpose left unfulfilled?
Em: grin I’m a soul who is learning!
btw, I think I was a guy in my past life
but yeah, I have a few lives that were.. naughty
tidrion: as am I, we just have very different teachers
Em: I do NOT have bad karmic debts to pay off, if that was what you were asking
I’m just in the learning process
tidrion: so what is the goal for you?
where is it you want to end?
tidrion: when do you get to rest?
Em: when I want to?
being human is fun!!
why would I want to quit even when I’ve reached my highest learning!
I’m a good teacher, I can keep coming back to hep others on their paths
that’s a good option for me
we don’t ever have to quit!!
tidrion: being spirit, being with God in eternal rest, in his Kingdom, free of hate, free of judgment, one with all that surrounds you, that is my goal.
Em: good for you!
tidrion: let me know when the blog post is up
tidrion: I’ll be curious to see what you make it if it when you read back over it what commentary you will add, where you have found me wanting
Em: Not sure when I’ll have time tom ake commentary..
it’s mostly for historical purposes… grin
tidrion: if you had to give me 10 points on the failing of Christianity what would they be?
Em: anger hate fear male-dominated negativity church tithing hell acceptance judgement
One thought on “A theological discussion”
This was really interesting.