• Sat. Sep 18th, 2021

A theological discussion

tidrion: sup

Em: beautiful weather!!

you?

tidrion: um I don’t see any storms tornados

Em: no, but it’s not hot!!!

;)

tidrion: how can you call that beautiful

okay

fair enough

Em: grin

Sent at 9:29 AM on Monday

tidrion: hey there

Em: ;)

tidrion: was curious what you walked away with from that movie

Em: LOL in 10 words or less, 1000 words or less or 1 million words or less?

tidrion: 10 words

Em: an explanation for what I’ve felt all my life

tidrion: which is?

Em: well, for one, loving oneself

ideas are real and they can make or break your universe

tidrion: exactly

Em: Ideas are like spells / intentions / “prayers”

except prayers ask and ideas “tell”

tidrion: well on the notion that ideas are real

Em: reality really is closer to the matrix

tidrion: I think that was central to Christ’s teaching

Em: it is our beliefi n god that created a god

runs and hides

tidrion: Matthew 5:27: “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
Matthew 5:28: But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Em: oh gods

not even

tidrion: Matthew 5:21: “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’
Matthew 5:22: But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

Em: CLOSE to what i mean

nope

tidrion: but think about it

think just for a second

Em: yeah.. they are on the edge

tidrion: just one second

Em: they are close

tidrion: just one second

Em: but they ave to put rules on it

tidrion: they put rules, 2 rules centrally to Love God and to Love everyone else

Em: how about the matter that is in more places than just one

tidrion: the rules taught us to not to action against another

Christ taught us not to even take thought against another

God is omni-present

Em: Christ knew exactly what he was talking about.. it was the humans that scrwed up what he was trying to teach

shrug

tidrion: some humans

some stick to the letter more than the Spirit

Em: Did ya watch Davinci Code?

tidrion: of coure…

Em: ;)

tidrion: but are you really going to give me a “history” lesson according to Dan Brown?

Em: I like it that it takes the Whore out of the scenario

I like it ALOT

tidrion: Whore? Mary Magdaline? The idea that Christ was married?

Em: yeah.. those things

tidrion: hmm, not enough historical data for that to me

Em: that christ was married?

do more research

Jesus. I prefer to call him Jesus

tidrion: I’ve done countless hours of research

Sent at 1:14 PM on Monday

tidrion: why Jesus over Christ?

Em: either way, it’s a question that cannot be answered

dunno

tidrion: okay….

Em: Jesus is a name, Christ is a title?

tidrion: neither is really a name

but whatever makes you comfortable

Em: (or, Jesus is his first name, and Christ is his last name.. and of course his middle name is n/m)

Jehova?

LOL

tidrion: Christ is not his last nme

do more research

Em: grin

I was referring to a joke

which is why I did the n/m

tidrion: k

again, to me it was a scientific reaffirmation to one of the core teachings of Christ that thoughts have meaning and impact and that actions aren’t required for wrong doing

Em: hon, I’m not going there with you

Sent at 1:17 PM on Monday

tidrion: :-)

didn’t think you would

Em: you are taking a beautiful idea and pushing it towards the negative. That is one of the things I hate about organized religion. THey seem to think only of the bad, the negative, go to hell if you don’t follow the rules and stuff.

It’s no wonder that think positive books are such a high item!

fuckin religionis

tidrion: oh I’m not saying thoughts can’t have positive effects too

Em: but you dwell!!

everyone dwells on the bad

tidrion: not even condemning for having a negative thoughts

Em: and that is what makes so much bad in this world

tidrion: how am I dwelling on bad?

I try and keep my thoughts pure, hard around you

Em: pull me a quote from the bible on good thoughts?

grin

thanks for the complimnet

I was gonna say that.. but.. LOL

wasn’t sure where you were or who was around

tidrion: Matthew 5:43: “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
Matthew 5:44: But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Matthew 5:45: so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

Em: there are still negatives.

all i want is pure goodness, good thought without mention of bad

or enemies

or evil

tidrion: you who claims to have an eternal enemy, to be destined to hate someone you work with cause you fought against them in a past life?

you who has spewed forth more hatred while I’ve tried to bring you back to a center focused on love

you are trying to tell me that my religion breeds hate?

my dear…

Sent at 1:28 PM on Monday

tidrion: I John 4:16: So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
I John 4:18: There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.

Em: have I really said I hated Jeremy?

tidrion: yes!

Em: I said he’s a fucking idiot

tidrion: you told me you where destined to hate him!

to be at war with him

that you were enemies in a past life

that you’d consulted the stars and found that you were destined to be at odds with him

Em: but that is different from hate!

tidrion: what if you just loved him

without conflict

Em: but you’d get jealous and his wife woudln’t be too hapy with me..

Sent at 1:35 PM on Monday

Em: oh wait…

Sent at 1:35 PM on Monday

tidrion: well stop using love in place of lust

ad don’t dance around this issue

Em: LOL

tidrion: cause I think it is important and critical

Em: LOL the issue is you can’t find much in the bible that doesn’t balance the good w/o the bad

and now you are trying to turn it around on me

I”m not havnig a crisis

I do not hate Jeremy, I am annoyed by him

I will not fuck him

tidrion: not asking you to

Em: and I will not love him

but I will not hate him.. I simply dislike him

tidrion: you want more good and uplifting words from the bible?

Em: and get fed up with his stupidity

tidrion: I can keep going with scripture

Em: as wel all do

even Andy has! LOL

and that has been beautiful!

tidrion: brb

Sent at 1:37 PM on Monday

tidrion: sick kid

Em: :(

Sent at 1:37 PM on Monday

tidrion: the law of three fold return even states there is punishment for those who do wrong

who carries that punishment out?

Em: ah, but it’s the inetent!!

the universe does

tidrion: the universe? or the divine? or God?

Em: sure

depending on your belief

why?

tidrion: so why is it so hard for you to believe that God can punish?

that there are consequences to your actions

Em: punish is fine, eternity in hell is outrageous

tidrion: you seem to be so caught up being against the idea of wrong or evil, bad intent

scary thought isn’t it?

Em: what?

tidrion: Think Hitler earned it?

Em: eterminty?

nope

no one earned it

fuck no

not eternity

I think he will be punished accordingly and will have other chances to redeem himself

in other lifetimes

tidrion: are you that afraid?

Em: oh Christopher

no

I am not afraid

you sadden me

tidrion: because you don’t believe in it

Em: :( hugs

someday

look me up in your next life

we’ll have fun and some laughs too!

Sent at 1:42 PM on Monday

tidrion: so are we all reincarnated? is that what you believe, that all of us no matter our deeds get another roll of the dice?

another chance to walk this earth?

are we still paying for past sins?

Em: yes

tidrion: how is that not eternal punishment?

if someone is unrepentant

Em: ;)

exactly!

tidrion: if someone keeps committing horrible acts over and over again?

Em: do you mean if the soul itself is broken? then they will never reach enlightenment, as you god-fearing people put it

and they will forever walk the earth doomed to repeat their past transgrettions

tidrion: so your willing to accept that if in every life you commit sin that you’ll be punished in the next, that eternal damnation you are comfortable with but that damnation to hell is beyond your grasp?

Em: but being a part of the balance

for their must be balance

tidrion: between? Good and Evil?

Em: to answer your question, no

the first question

I beleive we get punished for sins in our current lives

which is why so many bad people aren’t happy

;)

balance is between everything

tidrion: but bad people die happy all the time

Em: do they?

tidrion: people do get away with it

absolutely

Em: do you really know what is in their hearts?

or do they die insane?

tidrion: oh my…

seriously?

a tormented mind is punishment enough?

Em: depends on the acts

tidrion: so when they die, they are washed of their past sins and born anew

Em: and the intent

no, they are not washed of their past sins

depends ont he sins, silly!

tidrion: so what sins carry over and what sins don’t?

what if someone drives drunk kills two kids and dies himself

he carry that over?

what if it was even his intent to off himself and take someone else out with him

lets go on to the suicide bombers

horrible acts meant to punish and murder people

they die in the act, next life?

what do they get?

that carry over?

Em: depends on intent

tidrion: their intent was to kill and rob little children of their lives

Em: I’m not the universe, it is not for me to determine, nor am I the soul in question. I know if I was the drunk I would want to be punished and I would take a life of punishment to earn back my karma

if they were drunk, they did not have an intent that specific

tidrion: so lets say you in a life of punishment, you aren’t happy and you do it again

same thing, same intent

take yourself out and someone else

Em: yes, that does happen

tidrion: another life of punishment?

Em: I think of them as tests and choices

everyone’s soul is unique like a person. we all have goals that we are stupposed to reach in every lifetime

in order to progress forward, in order to learn

think of us as students

tidrion: so you are saying there are things we are supposed to do, and things we aren’t?

Em: young souls, old souls,

etc.

huh?

tidrion: we all have goals that we are stupposed to reach in every lifetime

Em: no, there is never anything we “aren’t ” supposed to do

but thre are things we are to do to learn

to experience

tidrion: not even if it harms?

Em: to live

even if it harms

tidrion: so in your view even if something we do intentionally harms someone we still weren’t necessarily not supposed to do it?

Em: yes

tidrion: so what you call the balance I call God’s will

Em: yes

grin Here’s a fun one for you!

tidrion: because there are certain things that seem dispicable, horrible, heart wrenching and cruel, but somewhere you accept there was a reason for it to happen?

Em: I believe there are “job descriptions” that our souls choose from. This one, die young, this one, bad parents, this one, activist, this one, president, etc. Depending on our level of “education” and our soul’s age, we can choose a job that will move us towards our next level of fullfillment

(and yes to your question)

tidrion: we still punished 3 times when we are fulfilling purpose?

Em: that depends on other aspects

so many other aspects that we cannot even fathom

tidrion: and I just think there are purposes for us to fulfill that he decided long ago

Em: I don’t like to think that we do not truly have free will and that is exactly what that means

tidrion: no it isn’t

Em: do it gods way or go to hell

tidrion: just cause we can choose not to fulfill the purpose isn’t that freewill

Em: in my world, it’s do it right the first time and graduate to the next level

but in your world, we only get one chance!!

that’sbullshit!

tidrion: why?

Em: do we give our children only one chance to get something right?

aren’t we god’s children?

tidrion: of course

Em: what do we learn if we aren’t allowed ot make mistkaes

and if we die because of the mistake we’re fucked?

no

I cannot agree with that

tidrion: absolutely allowed to make mistakes

Em: I don’t see how anyone could agree with that

tidrion: if I die in sin I don’t believe I’m going to hell

I don’t need final rights

I’m not a member of the Roman Catholic Church

Em: so what happens?

how can you “absolve” yourself?

tidrion: I can’t

beyond me

why I need him

Em: LOL

tidrion: His completed work on the cross

his grace

his love

like you said, maybe it was his will

his reason

maybe I was supposed to fuck it

maybe it served his purposed in a way that I can’t understand

I’m not muslim either

I don’t think I have an angel on each shoulder tallying

my good and bad

I humbly repent my sins, I do my best to love my neighbor as myself, and I love and honor him with my whole heart

he made the ultimate sacrifice for me

Sent at 2:00 PM on Monday

tidrion: I have faith in that, and faith that his actions will out weigh my transgressions

Sent at 2:01 PM on Monday

tidrion: I still think if you accept his love in grace that causes a change inside of you that carries out to the love for everyone else

I love myself because I believe that God loves me

Em: brb, my ice melted! hugs

Sent at 2:01 PM on Monday

tidrion: I believe that he loved me so much that he sacrificed for me

Sent at 2:03 PM on Monday

tidrion: so tell me this, when someone is born again, if they are born into a life of suffering, punishment for past misdeeds and they die before they have a chance to atone for what they have done, are they born into punishment again?

Em: yes

tidrion: so you don’t really believe that all children are innocent

Em: ah, but they don’t ahve to atone until they are of the understanding … a baby cannot atone for a past life debt

otherwise, what would stop souls from dying as babies constantly?

tidrion: but they are still born into another life of punishment?

even though they couldn’t atone they are still punished?

Em: the children are not punished

tidrion: but you just said some deeds warrant a life of punishment

so punishment doesn’t start until the age of reason?

but they are still “marked”?

Em: marked?

tidrion: well if they are born into a life of suffering, but suffering doesn’t start until a certain age, nothing they do in their life before the punishment begins or before they can begin to atone can free them from that punishment

so if I soul is “marked” set to serve a life of punishment but they keep dying at age 2 they’re just fucked?

cause they can’t “graduate”

can’t move forward until they atone

they never reach the age of reason

Em: is it their choice taht they are dying before the age of reason? then yes, they are fucked

tidrion: that sucks

Em: no, because it is their choice!

tidrion: ?

they chose to catch mono, HIV, born into poverty?

Em: yes

did you not read abou tmy job description?

tidrion: right but we’re talking about our suffering life here

cause we did something bad enough to carry over

Em: huh?

tidrion: we’ve done something that has earned us a life of suffering, punishment for previous transgressions

but we keep getting born into lives that end before we reach the age of reason so we can’t atone

you telling me even in lives of suffering we get to pick job descriptions?

Em: yes

tidrion: and are you telling me people chose lives that end at age 1 and 2?

Em: our soul does

yes

yes

tidrion: so someone choses to be an abortion baby?

Em: yup

tidrion: BULLSHIT

Em: go away Christoff

you don’t understand

Sent at 2:17 PM on Monday

tidrion: I’m trying

Sent at 2:17 PM on Monday

tidrion: trying to understand why a soul would chose that

Em: z

Sent at 2:18 PM on Monday

tidrion: I really want to understand this, maybe sometime we can talk about it more

Em: sure

miscarried babies, abortions, IF the soul is really there, the soul chose to do that to HELP the other soul go thru the loss or the experience of losing a child or making the abortion decision

we aren’t here just to help our own souls, we can help others too!

tidrion: but if that is true why a gap before the age of reason? why the wait for atonement, if a soul is born with that purpose or realization why is there ever a question?

Em: (z means SHUT THE FUCK UP TIM’S HERE!, btw)

tidrion: sorry

Em: hugs

;)

anyway, I don’t understand your newest question

they get karma points for helping out another soul, but once again, it is the intent

they may already have a connection with someone.

and they figure it would eas them thru it if they miscarried a soul that they are already connected to

it’s something they can discuss if need be

time is eternal

tidrion: but this goes against free will to me

we’ll talk later

Em: so.. what happens has already happened to a degree…

just not the decisions

yeah.. free will is difficult

do we have free will just on earth or do we as souls in the SUmmerlands

I think it is all a matter of chioces and growth

tidrion: just don’t understand, someone has to make a “wrong” choice somewhere, to know the outcome of the life, before the life begins, that is awfully self fulfilling

Em: huh?

tidrion: granted, some will chose to make tuff choices, but if we all chose the job descriptions why wouldn’t everyone pick to be Gandhi, or Buddha, or Bill Gates

why ever chose a life that is self serving

why would there ever be bad people

Em: becaue tney have to EARN the karma points to be them

because we have to have balance and bad people are requred for part of the learning

there are souls who enjoy it too much

the bad

tidrion: do we lose points?

Em: and those are the ones who are “repeat offenders”

tidrion: how far are you when you only have one choice

Em: of course we lose points

tidrion: and what if that choice is only an abortion baby

what if you loose your options

are never granted a chance to atone

Em: I’m still confused by your question

in the eyes of a soul, how is an abortion baby andy different from a miscarried or stillborn baby?

you don’t lose options!

tidrion: but if you don’t have enough points?

Em: how many average joes are there in the world?

tidrion: what if your points are 0

Em: 0 points equals average joe

a nobody

who can’t find love

be happy at a job

etc

tidrion: can’t atone?

can’t earn more points?

Em: they can always atone!

how could they not atone if they so choose?

help someone across the street

join the peace corp

tidrion: but what they constantly fuck up

they’ll just always be a 0

Em: it’s a choice to fuck up

they can take “time outs” if they are that stupid

tidrion: wow

Em: and be an animal or something

but like I also said, there are those who choose to be evil

tidrion: you’ve gotta be f’n kidding me, choices on animals to?

Em: and they need to for there to be balance

I don’t see why not

ever heard of familiars?

tidrion: but they aren’t graduating

they are always leading unfulifling lives?

Em: and they will stay taht way forever

tidrion: they are never growing spirtuallity

Em: perhaps your relgiion could call them demons

tidrion: so you do believe in eternal damnation just with an option to get out of Jail Free if you chose?

not free

if you chose at some point to finally not be evil

Em: I don’t like your definition of damnation, but otherwise, yes, people choose to walk the earth and “suffer” as opposed to graduating

tidrion: to not be a demon you can get out of it

Em: yes, you can finally choose to stop being a demon

tidrion: I’m just trying to understand, hell at its simplest form is thought to be the soul absent from God

some people read into the lakes of fire and eternal punishment

Em: nah, the universe is with you every step of your way.. whether your soul has negative karma and is a “demon” or if you are ghandi

tidrion: but in the eyes of a Christian nothing could be worse than being separated from God

Em: in in my world, we are never separated

may I blog our discussion?

without names?

tidrion: even if we are demons, God is still there, we just choose to ignore him

of course

so it is the eternal part that you are in conflict, you believe that we can chose to be evil and suffer but that no one can ever pass that judgment on to you?

Em: correct

tidrion: even though someone judges our lives and determines if we go up in the ranks or down

the game is never over to you

Em: sorta and yes

I think we judge ourselves

tidrion: we decide if we get points?

Em: no one else has a right to

tidrion: are you f’n kidding me?

Em: our souls are pure energy!

souls cannot lie!

tidrion: what if your an evil bastard and you still think everything you did was for a purpose and served a greater good

what if you feel you could justify the killing of an entire people because it benefited another?

Em: my universe is beyond your comprehension at this point

human failings are not part of our souls in their purest sense

tidrion: than what is karma?

what is suffering?

Em: and you are trying to imply failings upon our souls

karma and suffering both are human

tidrion: well you agree we can fail

you believe in the threefold law

Em: some souls choose not to become human!

tidrion: obviously there is something we can do that earns us punishment

you even said that we can be born into a life of suffering and redemption

you even think that we could have to repeat that over and over again for all eternity

Em: it’s a choice

tidrion: you chose to suffer?

Em: and no, I don’ tthink any soul would choose to make the same mistakes over and over

didn’t jesus choose to suffer?

tidrion: but it can

and it does

yes, to serve a purpose, once, one shot, to save us, and wash us of our sins, to save us from eternal damnation

Em: grin exactly!

tidrion: to be our light

Em: why not over and over again, until he got it right?

it was still a choice

tidrion: cause he didn’t have to

he was PERFECT!

Em: LOL

he was HUMAN!

tidrion: why laugh?

Em: can you imagine, the soul from my universe choosing to be the soul that would be your jesus

tidrion: so you can reach some state of infoulable spirtuality but god can’t!?

Em: wonder what the karmic points were on that one?

tidrion: I don’t think there were Karmic points, he hit the home run, it was out of the park he racked up so much salvation we don’t even have to keep score anymore, we just have to chose to believe or not, how great is that!?

you don’t have to repeat over and over and over

someone has done the work for you, believe in him, love him, love everyone else and you can rest after this life!

what if that is all that you have to really figure out?

what if that is what crashes the board in this or any life, for you or anyone else?

what if you don’t have to worry about it anymore

Em: ;)

tidrion: worry about having shit come back on you, what if you could just put your faith in him and now you are saved?

Em: your universe is so… tiny

there is no room for growth

tidrion: my universe is exponential!

Em: hugs

one chance, make it or break it

wow

how can you get up every day?

how can you have children?

I just can’t grasp it!

hugs

Sent at 2:41 PM on Monday

tidrion: plenty of room for growth in Spirit! Easy, I don’t have to worry about it! I have faith in Christ and Him Crucified! WIth his love my fears over!

what do I have to be afraid of! The sacrifice was made!

Em: then why this constant searching?

tidrion: why do you assume I’m searching?

what part of you has ever thought that I’ve been in doubt for one second?

Have my arguments not been reasoned?

Em: grin It was a simple question

when it comes to religion, there is no “reason”

only emotions

only abstract

tidrion: oh wow

that is the dumbest thing you’ve ever said

Em: wow, now you are attacking me

see

you ARE scared

tidrion: Research Bethea

Sent at 2:45 PM on Monday

tidrion: have you never heard of a Christian Apologetic?

Em: nope

tidrion: is there mysticism in religion, absolutely, things beyond our comprehension and understanding, completely, but I belong to Episcopal Church, we don’t check our brains at the door.

Sent at 2:46 PM on Monday

tidrion: what do I have to be scared of? What is left to fear? I have my faith. It isn’t from emotion that I worship, never from fear that I offer my praise. It is for my salvation that I am grateful, its for his sacrifice that I see him worthy of all my love and honor.

That I may never be damned, or asked to serve another life more perfectly. Knowing that the perfect life has already been lived, and that it was given for my sake and for the salvation of the entire world. His love has removed my fear.

Em: So, have you followed your gods will and you could die tomorrow happily and safely, knowing you would spend eternity in heaven?

with no fear

to hell with tomorrow.

Right now?

God wants you with him right now.

Are you ready?

Sent at 2:54 PM on Monday

tidrion: yes

Em: good!

tidrion: I am always ready to serve his will and purpose

Em: then I shall leave you be in peace

tidrion: How about you?

Do you have worries that you’ve committed acts that have lost you “points” do you worry you might commit an act beyond forgiveness or atonement in this life? Do you live not to serve your God in this life but in hope that in your next you may be more perfect?

Em: 1. No
1.5 No.
2. No

tidrion: so you believe you will leave this life, earned more points, enjoy a brief slumber in the Summerfields and than be ready to pick another “job” on this earth again?

Em: if I so choose, yes.

this has been a good life

;)

and continues to be a good life

my journey isn’t complete yet…

I have a responsibility to bring people together and also to help those I can… find themselves

grin

and on the side, I get to program and I love it!

tidrion: so, your other lives? you did not serve them well? not enough to have graduated to pure spirit yet? something of your purpose left unfulfilled?

Em: grin I’m a soul who is learning!

btw, I think I was a guy in my past life

but yeah, I have a few lives that were.. naughty

grin

tidrion: as am I, we just have very different teachers

Em: I do NOT have bad karmic debts to pay off, if that was what you were asking

I’m just in the learning process

tidrion: so what is the goal for you?

where is it you want to end?

Em: end?

tidrion: when do you get to rest?

Em: when I want to?

being human is fun!!

why would I want to quit even when I’ve reached my highest learning!

I’m a good teacher, I can keep coming back to hep others on their paths

that’s a good option for me

we don’t ever have to quit!!

tidrion: being spirit, being with God in eternal rest, in his Kingdom, free of hate, free of judgment, one with all that surrounds you, that is my goal.

Em: good for you!

;)

tidrion: let me know when the blog post is up

Em: k

tidrion: I’ll be curious to see what you make it if it when you read back over it what commentary you will add, where you have found me wanting

Em: Not sure when I’ll have time tom ake commentary..

it’s mostly for historical purposes… grin

tidrion: if you had to give me 10 points on the failing of Christianity what would they be?

Em: anger hate fear male-dominated negativity church tithing hell acceptance judgement

Em

I'm Me!

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